L I N D A   A N D   K E L L Y   B O Y D

How did both of you get involved in Siberians?
Kelly:  I got involved with dogs when I was 8 with a dog named Missy, a Spaniel mix.  I did 4-H with her.  I did it for a couple of years and then I decided that I wanted to show at AKC shows.  I don’t know why I decided that but that’s just how it was going to be.  My two 4-H leaders, Linda Eng (Springers) and Rene Stewart (Brittanys), both showed dogs.  They kind of got me into it.  So I researched all the breeds for over a year.  Went to shows and looked at everything and had a short list to look at.  We had two dogs that were higher on the list than the Siberians.  We went to Canby and I saw the Siberians and I said to Mom, “Nope, that’s it.  That’s the one”.  She said “No, we are staying all day and finishing out our list”.  So we stayed all day and looked at all the breeds.  We did and at the end of the day I said “Nope.  Siberians, that’s the one.”
 
Linda:  Before that I had gone to visit Joy and Joe Ritter, Samoyed Breeders, which was one of the top two picks.  They were very, very nice.  We’re still friends.  But Kelly decided on Siberians and it was her decision not mine because it was going to be her purebred dog not mine.  (laughter)  That rather expanded to a much bigger project than we planned but
we love it. 

 
How did you get your kennel name?

Kelly:  My [maternal] grandfather, when we brought Lightning to show him, said ‘finally you got a real dog’.  Our other dogs were small mixes.  We thought that was pretty funny.  Grandpa died soon after so he never got to see any of the others, but when we were thinking of a kennel name, somehow that statement stuck with us.  The name Tovik actually means “to vic” only with a long o.  My grandfather’s name was Victor.
 
Tell us about your first show dog?
 
Kelly:  That was Lightning.  He actually ended up have juvenile cataracts.  He was a very, very good sport because he was owned by an 11 year old so he put up with a lot.  He was very mellow which was good because I learned on him.  I was always showing him.  Taking him to matches.  Taking him to 4-H.  He was probably bored out of his mind.  Very pretty dog.  Big coat.  Long, arching neck.  I remember being amazed because at one show somebody went “Oh, you've got a Smokey kid”.  I was like “Oh, how did they know”.  But now it’s very obvious.  I can do that now.  Oh, your dogs are out of this dog or that dog.  They say, wow you're psychic.  No, no, I recognize what they look like now.
 
Linda:  He was a sweet boy.  He taught us all about Siberians and was such a pretty boy too.  He died at 14+ years.

Who was your first Champion?
 
Kelly:  First one we owned was Thunder, Champion Kossok's Thundercloud.  He was our third dog.  Our second one was at a show with a handler and got out and was hit by a car.
 
Linda:  It was suprising we stayed in Siberians after that.  We (Kelly, Alice & I) found her.  We drove up there to look for her.  It was heartbreaking.  I remember her still.

Kelly:  That was Fleesha.  Thunder was one of those slow maturing dogs so we started showing him when he really wasn't ready to show.  We didn't have anyone else to show  but like, oh Thunder, even though he was skinny and gross.  When he was 5, he got back in the ring and finished really quickly. Yea, but once he did mature, he looked really nice forever.  He lived until he was almost 15 and I have a picture at 9 where he looked liked a 4 year old dog, no problem.  We eventually got his sister, Tracey, who we did not finish but we bought her as a Champion.  Our first homebred Champion was Carbon
(CH Tovik's Trace Elements WPD), he was the son of Tracey
(CH Kossok's Trace of Des-Mar) and Griz (CH Symiron's Chocolate Drop). 

Linda:  I actually showed Carbon for half of his wins.  Kelly got the majors. I really enjoyed showing him, though. He's my big baby!  He's 10 years old now.

Over the years, do you have a particular breeding of which you are most proud of?
 
Kelly:  We don’t usually sell show puppies.  We just have a litter and keep
one.  The rest go to pet homes.  That way they are always perfect.  So a
lot don’t get out and finish.   There isn’t any litter like that.  Stoney
(CH Tovik's Thirty Six Red WPD) is from one of our early litters and she has been a wonderful producer.  It’s nice to have nice dogs but they have to produce nice dogs.
 
Have you had more success with line breeding or outcrossing?

Kelly:  I don’t breed heavily in and I do outcross quite a bit.  That has been fairly successful.  I think a breeder isn’t what they breed so much as what they keep.  I have had that theory for some time…seriously, you can get anything in a litter.  But if you can analyze them and say pick this, pick this and pick this, you'll be pretty consistent.  I have dogs in my kennel that I didn’t breed that look just like my dogs because I picked them out.  It’s something that I want so that way I get to outcross and don't paint myself into a corner, figuratively.
How important is the title CH particularly in a breeding program?
 
Kelly:  Not necessarily in a breeding program because obviously dogs are what they are.  Whether you don’t show them or you show them a lot doesn’t change the genetics whatsoever.  I think putting a Championship on them is putting care and time into them.  You are also depending on the opinions of strangers......people who, for the most part, care about the breed and read the breed standard.  And there are some judges and a lot of people know them, that are just trying to get a lot of assignments and not really worry about the details of what they are supposed to be there for.  I have Champions at my house that I have never planned on breeding.   Or, I have bred to some dogs that are not Champions.  We bred to one who will never be finished because he’s an older dog that was in someone’s backyard and not shown.  They took him out and showed him a little while and then he developed a prostate problem and they were going to have to neuter him.  I bred to him anyway knowing that they would never finish him.
 
Linda:  We still liked him and I believe that people have to be careful, just because a dog doesn’t earn their Championship doesn’t mean they are not worthy.  Although, people like to use that as an excuse. On the flip side, just because they are a Champion does not mean they have to be bred.  Keep in mind, at the right place and at the right time, almost any dog is finishable. 

Is phenotype more important than its pedigree?

Kelly:  I don’t breed on pedigree so I would say yes.  I breed on type.  I like to be aware of the siblings if I am going to breed to a dog because if he is the only one with nice proportions and everything else is short legged or long or has something going on then maybe that's not the dog to breed to.  If it is dog that I know and like then I am happy with that but it doesn’t guarantee that you will get anything that looks like them.  Technically, the way the genes work they may not even be related to their Great Grandfather.  So you can’t breed on that alone.

Linda:  You can’t breed thinking you are going to get Great Great Grandfather because he is in the pedigree way back there.  The genes have been spread far and wide by the time you reach this generation. 
 
 
Which dogs or bitches have had the most impact on establishing the type of Siberian you prefer?
 
Kelly:  In my own breeding, Plucky (Tovik's Cinnamon Teal).  She never finished.  When she was 7 months old we went to our first National 1994 in Carslile.  She won her Sweeps class of 30.  It was really exciting.  Plucky had the type I am trying to keep.......nice proportions, nice angulation, great temperment, good topline and croup.  She is very sweet.  She knew how to open a gates.  That was a fun experience.  We finally had to leave a video tape on her to see what she was doing.  She just wanted to be in the house.  She didn’t escape from the yard.  I just wanted to improve on that.  I prefer to outcross.  I don’t necessarily like everything from every kennel.  I may like something they have but not everything.  I may just take what I like.  A lot of people like to breed several bitches to the same male.  There is some sort of consistency to that but I don’t think putting all your eggs in one basket is really good for the long run.  I mean there are a lot of Siberians out there and the breed overall is fairly high quality compared to a lot of the breeds.  We can use it all and get nice results.
 
What are your current goals in your breeding program?

Kelly:  I imagine the same.  I mean producing dogs that I feel meet the standard with sufficient movement but not at the cost of angulation or structure.  Ones that look like Siberians but that can be a lot of things.  It’s not any set markings or coat length.  It seems like the most obvious things but there is a lot of trouble too.  It’s the easiest things to pick out.  True Siberian type is in the structure and movement.

What is a good breeder's level of responsibility as far as genetic health problems are concerned?
 
They have to be accountable for those puppies the rest of their lives and if they can’t be healthy,  that’s putting a huge burden on the families that take them in.  So avoid that heartbreak to people that own your dogs.  There is a large gene pool.  There is a lot of healthy animals to breed to.  No breeding is that great to warrant such a high risk.  Now cataracts at least, they don’t normally hurt the dog.  Hip Dysplasia and Epilepsy is really damaging to the dog and their quality of life.

Linda:  We place so many puppies in pet homes we want them to be healthy.  We don’t want them to have issues.  We get calls from pet homes and they say they have three Siberians and they have had major health issues with each one.  That’s sad.  That’s heartbreaking for the people and the dogs end up dying young.  The flip side of that if you sell to a show home and they start having problems that’s heartbreaking because they have invested in the future of their breeding program.  Besides the cost, there is the disappointment and frustration of not being able to move forward with their breeding program.

Imagine this:  You are a Judge:  You have all different types in the ring.  You have some very nice dogs but each has a fault.  What faults can you forgive?  Name two.  And name two you can’t.  And why?  Could each of you answer this.  Linda how about you first.
 
Linda:  First off, I want it to be known that I never want to be a judge.   I wouldn’t enjoy that at all.  I would look for angulation and how the dog uses that angulation.  And if they were all equal, then I would look at the little picky things.  I like a good earset and croup.  It has a lot to do with the look.
 
Kelly:  I think fault judging is really a deadly trap.  It’s really about the total package and a Siberian with some exceptional qualities that really stand out. I'm a big fan of the 4-bone rule...upper arm, shoulder, pelvis and femur are all within 10% of each other in length.  I think a lot of people go for that but they don’t realize it.  When those bones are in proportion, it’s really a nice little package. As far as movement, we all would like a nice clean up and back but if it‘s at the expense of side gait, it’s really not serving a purpose.  So, I’ll forgive a little sloppiness as long as it is not affecting the dogs efficiency in their reach and drive.

To change gears a little, I understand that you are currently campaigning a dog. There is great challenges in the specials ring today. Some people would think that you have a very difficult road ahead of you since Aramis is a white Siberian that is being handled by you, his owner. You are not showing him in a traditional way that is typically associated with specialing and yet today he is maintaining his standing in the Top 10? Tell me how this all came about.
 
Kelly:  He is different than most specials because there is a debate going around if he is leash broken. (laughter)  He was a great puppy.  He knew how to show and free stack.  I showed him at the 2004 National in the 9-12 and he showed beautifully there.  Then when I showed him again in January 2005 he just totally forgot. He was just crazy in the classes.....ethusiastic crazy.  He was bouncing and looking up at me, like “Hi! Mom!”.   Everyone at the next Specialty said "there's Aramis", what wild thing is he going to do today'.  He won that day.  He is a very sound dog.  Great proportions and angles.  As far as his campaign, after he finished, I wasn’t going to show him because he was two years old and he is a young dog.  He had a really great class career.  That was part of the reason to special him.  A lot of judges had heard about him and seen him.  And I had a fairly good line up for him so I decided to go for it right away.  In January of 2005, I showed him at the Specialty in Arizona and went Best of Winners for a 5 point major at 15 months old.  Two weeks later, I showed him at a Specialty and 2 All Breed Shows and got a 4 point major.  When he came back in coat, I decided to leave him in the classes for the Nationals.  I knew the judge liked him but there is liking a dog and then there is putting him up at the Nationals!  (laughter).  I didn’t know if the Breed Judge would like him and I had another dog to show, so I finished Roo (CH Alpine's Quintana Roo), a dog from the same kennel as Aramis, over the summer.  Aramis ended up going Winner's Dog and then Best of Winners, so I guess the Breed Judge liked him alright.  I heard that he was the first solid white to go Winners at the Nationals.  That set a record.  Then he had 14 points and 3 majors.  Then we had shows the very next weekend in my own hometown.  Thankfully, it was close or I don’t think I would have made it.  This all was mentally exhausting.  That show he got the Breed for another 5 point major and a Group 2.  I am not sure there is any white dogs that have gotten any Group placements, at least in the United States.  It was cool to do it with a class dog and finish him with a Group placement and a nice way to finish him.  So I decided to do the Specialty circuit.  We wanted to make him a Specialty Special and try to get him in Eukanuba because it is in Long Beach this year and it would be fun to go with him since I had never been invited.   So my goal was to get him in the Top 25.  Right now he is #7 in the breed, however he is going out of coat so he will go down in the rankings.  But my goal was always to get him in the Top 25.  He’s won 4 Specialties so not bad considering what my original goal was.  I just can’t believe he has been in the Top 10 all year.

What makes Aramis worthy of being campaigned?
 
Kelly:  I think that he is just a really, really nice Siberian and I think it is important to get him out and seen by judges because they can’t put up white Siberians if they can’t see them.  I know a lot of peoples idea is that if it’s short and fluffy and cute that it makes a good special.  A lot of times it does but if that’s all the judge has to pick from then that's what they're going to pick.  There are judges out there that do like leg and proportion and good movement.  I think Aramis is such a sound dog.  He’s naturally very bright white.  Some dogs are creamy white and some dogs have white whites.  Even if they don’t put him up, a lot of judges say, “Damn he’s white”. (laughter)
 
Being an owner handler, what are some of the challenges?  And being owner handled, tell us about the rewards as well.
 
Kelly:  I don’t know if I would a say a lot of challenges.  It doesn’t feel like it.  I’m not the type of person that worries about handlers or other dogs.  I used to work with handlers and I mean I understand what they are doing.  As an owner, you have more time with the dogs.  You aren’t showing 20 dogs in a day.  You show that one.  You aren’t traveling quite as much.  Or if you are, you aren’t traveling with 16 dogs.  So you have more time with your dog.  And you need to take advantage of that as a owner handler.  You can’t be bumbling around the ring.  You have to be able to show it.  You have to be a good handler and you need a nice dog.    And you have to be smart about where you enter and where you spend your money.  When we win, we have the attitude, I guess we made it work today.  When you lose, you have to be happy enough to be able to walk away from that a loser too.
 
Being #7 in the Breed*, do you think you would be ranked higher if it wasn’t for the politics?
 
Kelly:  Um, I don’t really know that it’s politics that hold him back.  I don’t know if it’s his age that holds him back.  He’s a young dog with exuberance! (laughter)  He’s not perfectly trained.  He does this new thing now where he springs into the air and lands in a free stack.  Every time I try to get him to re-set himself he has to spring into the air.  There’s a lot of hopping up and down involved with him and uh every so often he likes to gallop a little bit.  I mean, he just doesn’t have the polish of a big special either.  I took him to the Garden this year and I’m glad because he got in there and was doing fine and then he noticed the next couple of tiers of people and the crowds and then all he could do was look at the crowd and then he was like “wow”, then he would look up again and you could see “w-o-w“.  I think it was good for him to get that out of his system.  If he ever goes back or goes to Eukanuba, Westminster or Nationals, it will be a different experience.  It will be oh ok instead of wide-eyed.
 
Do you think Aramis is best shown under Breeder Judges or All Breed Judges.  Or both?
 
Kelly:  Uh, he won specialties under 2 All-Breed judges and 2 Breeder Judges.  He tends to win or walk out at the first cut.  I think a lot of Breeder Judges are used to seeing a white Siberian.  The All-Breed judges just don't get the opportunity that often.  Some people that have been in the breed a long time say that you have to get him out and seen, not because he is white but because he is a nice Siberian for any color.  And I do think he is rather exceptional for any color.  I mean his coat is one of the nicest I have had on any dog.  I went to take his picture for going Winner’s Dog at the National and he had been in the ring for a very long time and there was nothing wrong with his coat,  I mean I didn’t even have to brush him.  He just has a nice proper coat.
 
Do you think you are making history with a White Siberian?
 
Kelly:  I believe he is the Top Winning white Siberian although there has only been one other Specialty Winner.  I don't know about group placers.  I was talking to someone last week and it’s kind of funny…you can make up any statistic.  However, he is the first one to get Winners Dog at the National.  I think he is a good poster child, not because he is a nice white but because he is a really, really nice Siberian who just happens to be white.   If there were more typically colored Siberians around that were as nice as him, I would be a very happy person.
 
It is difficult at best… today to special a dog but to special a dog owner handled is extremely challenging, what would you tell someone that is entertaining the idea of doing it themselves.
 
Kelly:  I would tell them to use it to their advantage.  Be a good handler and be in tune with your dog as much as possible because you have the advantage having more time with your special than a professional handler has with theirs.  Work on the total package and presentation and have your dog in good condition.  They can’t be flabby or fat.  They need to be clean, combed out and not sunburned.  I think they know it when they are specials.  Aramis likes to sleep on the bed.  He is insistent upon that.  He’s actually kind of funny because a lot people kind of debate if he is trained or not.  But he really does have this show thing down pretty well.  He travels well in the car. He likes to be in the motel room.  He likes to play certain games.  He loves old spayed bitches.  He likes to go to Specialties because he gets to see the Veteran Bitches.  (lots of laughter).  He’s really funny about that.  He loves playing with other dogs.  When he’s tired be just curls up in a little ball and goes to sleep. 
 
He’s actually a pretty good dog.  His collar snapped last weekend and he was pretty well able to run where he wanted to.  I called him a couple of times and at first he just kinda looked up and told me he was busy.  So finally he realized I was calling him and he bounded right up to me.  A lot of people came up to me and said “Good recall”  because he didn’t do the fly by. (laughter)  He just came right up to me like “oh ok”.  It’s just one of the funny things that specials do because you are with them all the time.  
 
What has been your greatest moment in Siberians?
 
Kelly:  Kind of an obvious one is getting Winners and Best Of Winners at the National.  That was really great.  It really did mean a lot because it did come from a Breeder Judge, someone who really cares about the breed and the standard.  And never in a million years did I think he would get Best of Winners too.  That was just icing on the cake.  You know Aramis has had a lot of wins that I never thought I would ever get.  Not that I didn’t want to get or try to get but he seemed to do it very easily.  I have been showing for 17 years and then this dog comes along and it’s like, you know, his major wins, his specialty wins, the Nationals and then he qualifies the invitational.  Just all these neat things you kind of wish for but it’s not just Aramis.  I finished 2 other dogs last year, bred another Champion last year and had one this year already with more on the way.  It’s just been really exciting lately.  To see them all from different litters but having that same consistency to do well is special.  And some other dogs that have been placed with others are doing really well too.  That success is really nice.  Another fun part is when they are puppies.  I remember when I picked out Aramis from Janet.  I just knew that puppy was something special.  Part of the challenge is being able to pick out puppies.  I just knew.  He had a white sister and I could tell them apart across the dog yard.  He just flowed across the yard and had the quality that I was looking for. That kind of thing is exciting and keeps you going.  Just living with Siberians is one comedy after another.  The stuff they think up and do to you.  If there were no more shows, I would still have Siberians.  It’s such a funny breed.  
 
Linda: I guess I am going to answer this from a little bit different perspective because even though Kelly and I have done this together all these years I’ve never shown dogs much, uh, I showed one!  I put some of the points on our first Bred-By Champion.  But I have to say it was a thrill for me to watch her win at the National.  To see she and Aramis together was very special.  They had been doing well and she loved that puppy from day one.  It was just really, really exciting.  I floated home rather than came on the plane.  (laughter)

Siberians USA:  There couldn't be a better closing to the story.  Thanks for your time.  It's been fun! 

Click to Enlarge Photos

Kossok's Lightning Storm CGC
"Lightning"

He was our first Siberian which we bought in 1989.
Bred by:    Alice J. Watt and Maureen Gunderson

CH Tovik's Trace Elements WPD
"Carbon"
Our first homebred Champion, finished with all points from the Bred By class.

How many dogs do you currently have?

 Kelly:  I always have to think about who is in what kennel.

Linda:  We have quite a few "old guys".  We call it our "geriatric unit".  (laughter)  They are so sweet.  We usually have between 18 and 22 Siberians of all ages.

"Stoney"
CH Tovik's Thirty Six Red WPD
Stoney is a great all purpose Siberian and has been a great producer

"Ernie"
CH Tovik's Rubber Ducky CGC

All dogs featured above were Owned and Bred by Linda S. Boyd and Kelly K. Boyd  with the exception of Lightning

"Plucky"
Tovik's Cinnamon Teal

Visit
Linda and Kelly Boyd at

Tovik Siberians

www.tovik.com

If you would like more information regarding any of the dogs featured herein.  Please visit Tovik Siberians at their website address listed below.