Brian and Anne Palmer
Residence: Michigan
Occupation: Business Consultant and Home Remodeling
Email: Highlandersibes@aol.com
Web site: www.highlandersiberians.com
Interview conducted on July 1, 2010
Part I of 2
Part I
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Brian:
Were you mentored in the breed?
Brian: "Were" is passed tense; I am still being mentored in the breed! In the early years I took knowledge from a lot of people by talking to them and looking for what worked. Des and Mary Cole, Jamesa Maulden Murray Mullinax and Julia Rylander all spent time with me. As I grew in the sport I needed different mentors for where I was in the sport. Anne became one of my big mentors. Recently as the emphasis grew on competitive sledding Dale Wolfe has became a big part of what I have been able to do with the dogs in harness.
Anne: My early mentors were Chris Vroom, Rick Sheid, and Bill Sahloff. Today, Bill is a judge, but early on he was a professional handler and a breeder of Beagles. Today, like Brian I am still being mentored in the breed.
Was there a particular breeder or line that influenced you at the time?
Anne: Overall, both Kontoki and Innisfree had a strong influence in our foundation dogs.
During the time when I was learning how to show a dog, I had been watching Tommy Oelschlager in the ring. I loved the way he presented his dogs in the ring and I used to try to mimic his presentation style. I tried to show Lani, but she was not very pretty and had a very short coat, we were just not making it in the show ring. She was structurally sound, but needed additional help in some areas.
In 1986, I fell in love with "Tubby" aka "Mo" aka CH Kontoki's One Mo'Time. I introduced myself to Tommy and we discussed breeding Lani to Tubby. Tommy agreed that the breeding would be complimentary. As a result of the breeding, Nikki was born and I produced my first homebred champion, CH Joanta's Nikolv Time. Nikki had a whirlwind career, finishing very quickly with five three point majors.
In 1988, Chris and I decided to breed Kira to Chrisdon's Cause Celebre (CH Innisfree's Cutty Macguire x Keystone's Oakridge Cinchona) producing Joanta's Shawana Yukon Wind. Shawana was then bred to CH Jo-Kar's Gone With The Wind (CH Kontoki's Dennis The Menace x Snowborn Martika's Myth Jo-Kar) to produce Celine, Yukonwind's I'm Your Lady. Celine is the dam of Am/Can CH Highlander's Austin Power's and CH Highlander's Tooltime.
Who was your foundation bitch and do your current lines go back to this bitch?
There were actually two foundation bitches, I mentioned their background previously, Joanta's Lani Bleu and Joanta's Kira of Chrisdon and our current lines do go back to both these girls.
CH Highlander's Turn The Beat Around, SD is descended from Lani and Am/Can CH Highlander's Austin Powers, SD is descended from Kira.
Who were some of the bitches and dogs that you were most proud of?
Over the generations it is difficult to assess an answer to this question as we are equally proud of all the dogs that have walked our yard. Every dog has put a smile on our face and filled our hearts with joy.
A special dog was CH Highlander's Tooltime aka "Al". This dog won the national specialty in 1997 with his sixteen year old owner, Holly Potter; it was a fabulous win and something we will never forget. After the national win, he was bred with no resulting puppies. We took him to Dr. Hutchinson, a renowned reproductive specialist to learn after much testing, that the dog was simply born sterile. You can imagine what a shock that was! But, Al's career did not stop there. Holly let us know that Al missed the ring and did we know of a good Junior home for him. Coincidentally, at the same time, we had been in contact with the Terella family, looking for just that. It was a match made in heaven, first Tim showed Al in Juniors then Rick. The dog did what he loved to do, a showman until the very end. We are especially proud of him and what he gave to his juniors.
BREEDING TODAY
How did you and Brian meet?
Match maker match maker make me a match! LOL... Brian was showing a dog for Karen and Dominic Potts of Jo-Kar Siberians and Anne was a close friend of Karen's. Karen introduced us at the Dallas national and we hit it off. Brian was in Seattle and Anne lived in Michigan. We had a long distance relationship for a year and half before Brian moved to the Midwest.
How has your breeding program changed since the early years?
Our breeding program continues to develop, when we started breeding there was lack of consistency. Over time we have gained experience for what works and what does not work. We both have an eye for a particular style of dog and shared a common picture of the Siberian Husky that translated into common points of the standard.
We both had a common interest in sledding when we met and Brian's time spent on training of the dogs has been one of the largest improvements. I don't think our thoughts and ideals have changed too much.
How many Siberians do you have right now?
We currently house around twenty. This is number that we have maintained for years.
Is phenotype more important than pedigree?
We treat it hand in hand to get both in one dog would be a dream. Phenotype we use to put forth the attributes we want and we use a pedigree for health and type being produced.
How important is the title Champion in your breeding program?
For us a title is not the end-of-all-ends in this process. And most of us can agree that there are more titled animals bred that should not be bred.
A champion title reflects accomplishment in one avenue of a dog and most dogs in our breeding program do have a champion title, but not all. We do have dogs without a champion title that have an SDX title that are in our breeding program and they will not see a conformation ring, but they have many attributes that contribute to the success of our whole breeding program.
The fact is that it's genetics that produces good dogs and not titles. It's the experience of how to put genetics, temperament and health together that produce good dogs and not titles.
Do you have two separate breeding programs, one for racing and one for conformation?
We have one breeding program. We have brought in outside racing lines and outside showing lines and incorporated them into our breeding program.
Realistically, is there a difference between the Siberian that races and the Siberian that competes in Conformation? If so, how?
Brian believes show lines have grown too feminine while working lines maintain more masculinity.
The word moderate shows up how many times in the standard? This has been beat into Judges heads for so long and the fact show breeders want a very highly stylized bitch has driven a lot of masculinity out of the breed.
Currently and in general, Siberians are so moderate the subject shouldn't come up. The issue of proportions with regards to length of leg is far more important. The thing in the standard held close to our hearts has always been
Length of the leg from elbow to ground is 'LONGER' than the distance from the elbow to the top of withers."
This is the single most important statement in our standard as our dogs relate to working in harness. Brian thinks this statement has been so over looked it should read: Length of the leg from elbow to ground is '
NOTICEABLY
LONGER' than the distance from the elbow to the top of withers."
Judges shouldn't have to "look through coat to find leg". Exhibitors trimming dogs to get leg are missing something in the whelping box.
Anne believes for the most part, there is a difference, attend a few races and attend a few shows and you will see the difference, not just in body styles, but also in temperament.
In a working kennel, typically the dogs are worked or go to other working kennels and they retain more of the functional temperament of the breed. All the things that make them the most functional are not the most desirable traits for living in a manicured, unfenced yard of a modern day suburban home (i.e. independence, digging, running away).
I think a contributing factor to the evolving temperament of our breed is the expectation set by the pet market and insurance companies. Most show dog kennel's puppies go to pet homes as typically there are only a few show potential puppies in a litter and people love the look, but want them to stay at home and be easy to live with. And, as a result, I see the breed temperament becoming somewhat homogenous with other breeds.
A Siberian Husky is a working dog. He should have the drive to run. He likes challenges and thrives on working. You should never take this admired, affirmative drive out of your breeding program. It is the Siberian Husky's trademark.
Do you favor line breeding or out crosses?
We don't favor one over the other, the key to ALL breeding, is to know what you are doing before you begin. Learn as much as possible about the dogs you are going to breed. Think about the dogs in the pedigree and compare them to the Siberian Husky Standard. Research all you can about the animals appearing in the pedigrees of those you intend to breed and honestly evaluate their strong and weak points.
You also need to know when not to breed a dog, just because you have a dog you love dearly, does not mean they will bring quality in the next generation.
Have you ever done inbreeding?
We are making the assumption you are referring to something like a son to mother, father to daughter? Personally, we can't see what it might achieve.
When you do a breeding, how do you ascertain which two Siberians to breed?
When we are considering breeding one of our bitches, we look at her objectively, comparing her to the standard, and note her faults and her strengths. We determine what we like best about her and what we would most like to improve. And, we do reach out to others to get their opinions. It's easier when the bitch has been bred before, as we can look at her offspring to determine strengths and weaknesses passed on. If she has never been bred, we take into consideration her littermates and their offspring.
When choosing a stud, it's typically one that we have seen in person or one who was suggested by a friend. If we cannot visit the prospective studs in person we ask for a video of him in a natural setting. We like to see him running around and from every angle. We never rely on photographs, they can be very deceptive. We do our homework well in advance of the breeding.
Open, honest discussion with the stud dog owner is very important. We talk to the stud dog's owner about our bitch, her strengths and weaknesses and we ask the stud dog owner to tell us about their stud's strengths and weaknesses. This helps to determine if he would be a good candidate for our bitch. We try to determine what traits the stud puts on his offspring and what the offspring seem to get from the bitch. Is he dominant in any particular traits such as overall temperament, angulation, tail set, bite, etc?
Which dogs or bitches have had the most impact on establishing the type and structure of Siberian you prefer?
The bitch that has had the most impact in establishing the type and structure we prefer was a bitch with an Innisfree pedigree. Her name was CH Kristari's Daisy Mae and she was out of (CH Innisfree's Chips Ahoy x Innisfree's Sweet Charity). Daisy clicked with almost every dog we bred her to, producing excellent titled running dogs and over 10 champions. Daisy was awarded the SHCA top producing bitch in 2000.
Who was your most successful Stud Dog, past or present, and why? And most successful Brood Bitch, past or present, and why?
Am/Can CH Highlander's Austin Powers, SD (BIS/BISS CH Solocha's Magnum P.I. x CH Yukon Wind's I'm Your Lady)has sired many Best In Show and Best In Specialty Show winning get and twice has received the SHCA Top Producing Stud Dog. He has produced all champion litters and very few health issues. Austin has an excellent work ethic, running single lead and passes that workability on to his children.
One of Daisy's sons has proven to be a highly successful stud dog, Am/Can CH Highlander's Go For Broke, SDX. He has produced litters that looked like they were all peas from the same pod. We feel he is certainly a great stud dog, producing better than himself and his children retain his workability, successfully running in harness and successfully competing in the show ring. Like Austin, he has produced very few health issues.
Currently, in your breeding program, what are you trying to maintain and what are your trying to strengthen?
Over the years we have been breeding, items that have risen to the top of our priorities are size and well balanced proportions. We work to maintain the selection for physical type, temperament, and soundness.
How do you feel that your breeding program has evolved?
As we mentioned previously, our breeding program continues to evolve. Over time our dogs have become more consistent in type.
Do you feel that your breeding program has established a type that is recognizable?
For the most part, yes.
In your opinion, which Siberian breeder, past or present has had the most consistency over time?
We very much admire many of the Wildestar
and Demavand
dogs. We feel that Brenda Valetta
and Michael Jennings have
left
their
stamp on the breed in a very significant way and dogs that are descendants from
these
lines continue to produce quality Siberians.
Currently, which youngsters are you most proud of?
There are quite a few young dogs we are proud of and for various reasons.
Currently, we have a couple of lovely dogs on the west coast, most notably is CH Highlander's Rivercard O'Ruskai. We had the opportunity to see him in Gettysburg and he looked lovely.
We are also very pleased with how we have been able to contribute to the successful breeding program of other kennels, most significantly Canyonlands Siberians in Australia and Apache Run Siberians in Texas.
Katrina Fisher from Canyonlands has combined both Austin and Broker in her breeding program to produce multiple BIS and BISS winning dogs. Austin has had a heavy influence on Kathy and Bruce Hoover's breeding program.
A couple that live with us that we are most proud of are BISS CH Highlander's Diamonds R'Furever and Highlander's Shaktoolik. Toolik at a very young age has quickly demonstrated his capability in harness and his desire to run lead.
What kind of a judge do you prefer showing to?
We like to show under judges who are totally honest and judge the dogs irrespective of who owns or handles them. Judges that are honest and demonstrates that they are judging to type, which everyone can clearly see, is desirable but unfortunately they are a rare breed! It makes it challenging for a breeder/owner/handler to campaign their own dog.
Approximately, how many litters do you have a year?
We average four litters a year.
What do you think is the most common error when breeding?
Selecting the right dog, for the right bitch. Brian feels some people try to cut corners by not shipping a bitch to breed because there is a dog around the corner to use. By saving some money up front in shipping people end up paying more with show entries of the get.
When selecting a puppy, what qualities are you looking for and when do you do your final evaluation of the litter?
When we pick out a puppy, we see what appears to be the best prospects emerge over the course of eight weeks. We have opinions about each puppy's abilities and personality before actually temperament testing them at seven weeks, because we have been noticing their behavior since birth. We have a good idea of who is active with lots of endurance; who is curious; who is bold; who is cautious; who tires easily etc.
It is important to include looks and balanced structure in a high ranking position on the list of qualities that make for a good working Siberian because we could be incorporating this puppy into our breeding program.
Have you personally done an implant or AI with any outside kennels and have you had success with it?
We had to do one AI and it was successful. But mostly our experience with AI's, is shipping frozen and fresh chilled and there has been success in using it.
Are any of your dogs collected and are they available to outside kennels?
We have three dogs collected and they are available to approved outside kennels.
If someone would want to buy a Siberian from you, what would the requirements be?
Initially, we require they complete our questionnaire so that we can begin a dialog to determine if the Siberian Husky is the right breed for the person making the inquiry and also that they understand the requirements for housing and owning one.
It is our requirement that someone wanting to buy a Siberian from us has researched the breed and has fully considered the implications of owning a Siberian Husky.
More from Brian and Anne, in our next issue...stay tuned for Part II.
Visit Brian and Anne's photo gallery by clicking here.
When and how did you start your journey with Siberians?
Anne: I purchased my first Siberian in 1980 from a pet shop where I had already purchased a Samoyed. She was a typical black and white, blue eyed Siberian Husky and I immediately fell in love with her. I learned a lot about Siberians from her, independence, endurance, the instinct to hunt, but also the zest and love of life. Unfortunately, she was hit by a car.
I had developed an interest in showing and sledding and in 1984 I purchased my second Siberian from Jack and Elaine Fields, she was a red and white female out of CH Karnovanda's Blak Jak x Karnovanda's Karmasouchak. We named her Joanta's Lani Bleu. Jack and Elaine were members of the Siberian Husky Club of Greater Detroit and we formed a good friendship.
Soon after, I joined the Mid Union Sled Haulers (MUSH) the Great Lakes Sled Dog Club (GLSDA) and the Siberian Husky Club of Greater Detroit.
I was looking for a couple of dogs to run and Michele Thie introduced me to Chris Vroom of Chrisdon Kennels. A young couple who had purchased two littermates from Chris, could no longer keep them, so I went out to take a look at them and Bayard and Kira came home with me. They were registered as Joanta's Bayard of Chrisdon and Joanta's Kira of Chrisdon, they were out of Am/Can CH Innisfree The Pheasant x Chrisdon's Sister Sledge.
Bayard went on to become my first Champion. It was a great learning experience in the ring, I made friends, and I learned about the dog show world in the three years it took to finish him.
Through Jack and Elaine, I met a fellow who ran dogs, Rick Scheid. He was a wonderful teacher and I learned a lot from him. Rick ran mostly Alaskans. He started out in Siberians and still ran a couple on his team. He gave me one of his Siberi ans, Nickoleis Blizard, we called him Granick. He was my first leader; his pedigree was mostly Igloo Pak with some Calivali.
In the early 90's, I acquired another leader, an Alaskan from Randy Dekuyper, her name was Zip. She was not very attractive, but had a great work ethic and really helped to bring my Siberian team along.